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Author Topic: Converter or Extension Tube?  (Read 483 times)
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Christopher Robin
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« on: June 27, 2012, 10:09 AM »

Hi
May seem like a really silly question but what is the differance between a Teleconverter and an extension tube?

A tele converter extends your focal length.. so a 2x converter changes my 70-300 to a 140 - 600! correct?
An extension tube increases maginfication? lost after this point

I have read many sites now and it all becomes quite confusing and then I get lost in the jargon.  To break it down to really a basic level, a tele converter will convert my lens to "longer" lens for distance phtograhy, but not much good at close up range, whilst an extender tube will not "extend" my lens focal distance but will work well for close up images where you need to be close in but not to close to the subject, if you know what I mean.

I am on the right track, simple answers if you can at this stage please.

Thanks
Chris
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2012, 1:17 PM »

You are on the right track, Christopher.  Your 2x teleconverter does what it says on the tin - it doubles your focal length, while an extension tube moves the lens further away from the image plane, and therefore allows greater magnification - very useful for macro shots as you can get much closer to the subject.  Using extension tubes does mean that you will lose an f-stop or two, but if you have, say, a 50mm f1.8 lens, this is rarely a problem.  I don't know which camera you have, but the 70 - 300mm lens for my Olympus E-500 will also produce macro shots - it has to be set at 300mm, in manual mode, and shots can be taken from around five and a half feet away - I have to use a tripod for this type of shot.  Hope this helps!
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2012, 1:30 PM »

As zoot says, you will lose few stops. The 2x teleconverters will make your lens a 140-600 but the bad news is that if your lens is an f3.5/ 5.6 it will only stop down to between f5 and f8 and will not autofocus. Teleconverters are best used with fast lenses (f2.8 or faster)

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Christopher Robin
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2012, 2:01 PM »

Thanks for the info its clearing the fog quite a lot now, my camera is a Canon Eos 550d, I have a sigma 70-300 DG Macro to play with, I  am trying to decide which one I will get the most use of Extension or Tele so knowing what they actually do is half the battle instead of guessing what they do.
Thanks again for the help.

Chris
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scoundrel1728
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2012, 10:11 PM »

Which you get the most from will depend partly on whether you need to magnify things that you can get close to, e.g., insects and flowers, or things that you cannot get close to, e.g., birds and other skittish wildlife, sporting events, astronomical bodies.  The difference is something like that between a magnifying glass (close-up lenses) and a low-power telescope (teleconverters).  extension tubes do much the same thing as the close-up lenses but work on a somewhat different principle.

To get the best out of a teleconverter, your primary lens must have good light-gathering power and must be very good optically.  Teleconverters also work best on a lens that already has a long focal length.  My guess is that the lenses you currently have would not give good results with a teleconverter; you would probably get results at least as good simply by cropping your image.  On the other hand, extension tubes usually give better results than close-up lenses but are not quite as easy to use.  In other words, your money would most likely be better spent on the extension tubes at this point in you photographic career.
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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2012, 10:44 PM »

Now that is what I call a full and definitive answer. It sums it up very well.
That's the beauty of this site - help is just a few clicks away.
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2012, 8:35 PM »

Excellent answer Scoundrel to the point and simple to understand, Thank you very much. incidentally the lens I have at prsent

Canon 18-55 Stock lens
Sigma 400mm F5.4 Telephoto
Sigma 70-300 APO Macro zoom
And most recent a Sigma 18-200 Zoom
on a Canon Eos 550d

And thats it so far next question I need to ask myself is what interests me the most subject wise so I can buy kit specif to that subject, this early IT ALL INTERESTS me.

Again thanks for all the clear answers to you all.

Chris
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« Reply #7 on: July 3, 2012, 1:17 AM »

It is worth mentioning that the use of a x 2 converter on your 550D will lose 2 stops when using the converter with a 70-300mm, the view finder will become very dark … it will magnify any faults in the lens, as well as increasing chromatic aberration, images will not be as sharp and you will probably lose some, or all electrical communication between the lens and camera.
Using a converter as well as extending the zoom range, the minimum focus distance is retained which would be a good thing on a fast lens …

Extension tubes are relatively cheap (unless you get the chipped versions, that retain the communication between lens, tube and camera) and would perhaps have more use than the converter when used on your zoom. Unlike the converter there is less drop off in lens performance because there is no glass in the tube, you will still lose light/f stops but because a zoom moves its rear element forward and backwards the loss will be perhaps more variable and more so if you have more than one tube attached. With the cheap tubes because there is no communication between the lens and camera you would have to alter the f number manually … I believe on Canon cameras this is done with the lens initially attached to the camera, setting the required f number and then holding in the DOF preview button while removing the lens … you would then put the tube on and then the lens.  
As a side note chipped tubes start from about £60 for s set of three to something like £125 for a single Canon tube … I’m guessing that Canon air must cost a hell of a lot more than the air that fills some of those third party tubes.

Another option if you have a prime lens (Probably something in the region of 50mm to 135mm) is to get a macro lens reversing adapter ring, they cost roughly the same price as tubes and a lot less than a converter and will allow you to put the lens on to the camera body back to front and achieve close to macro capabilities.

All three options have their advantages and disadvantages with regards close up and macro photography … if you simply want to experiment with the idea, or perhaps see if this genre of photography is for you then tubes are probably the best and cheapest option … an un-chipped set of three tubes can be had for under a tenner and polaroid do a set of three chipped tubes for about £60.  
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« Reply #8 on: July 6, 2012, 7:47 PM »

My 2X tele conver kills my battery straight away Does it with the 1.5 X as well. Then when I take the converter off the battery is fine
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« Reply #9 on: July 7, 2012, 10:42 PM »

It is worth mentioning that the use of a x 2 converter on your 550D will lose 2 stops when using the converter with a 70-300mm, the view finder will become very dark … it will magnify any faults in the lens, as well as increasing chromatic aberration, images will not be as sharp and you will probably lose some, or all electrical communication between the lens and camera.
Using a converter as well as extending the zoom range, the minimum focus distance is retained which would be a good thing on a fast lens …

Extension tubes are relatively cheap (unless you get the chipped versions, that retain the communication between lens, tube and camera) and would perhaps have more use than the converter when used on your zoom. Unlike the converter there is less drop off in lens performance because there is no glass in the tube, you will still lose light/f stops but because a zoom moves its rear element forward and backwards the loss will be perhaps more variable and more so if you have more than one tube attached. With the cheap tubes because there is no communication between the lens and camera you would have to alter the f number manually … I believe on Canon cameras this is done with the lens initially attached to the camera, setting the required f number and then holding in the DOF preview button while removing the lens … you would then put the tube on and then the lens.  
As a side note chipped tubes start from about £60 for s set of three to something like £125 for a single Canon tube … I’m guessing that Canon air must cost a hell of a lot more than the air that fills some of those third party tubes.

Another option if you have a prime lens (Probably something in the region of 50mm to 135mm) is to get a macro lens reversing adapter ring, they cost roughly the same price as tubes and a lot less than a converter and will allow you to put the lens on to the camera body back to front and achieve close to macro capabilities.

It may be counterintuitive, but the shorter the lens' focal length, the greater the magnification.  This approach also works with zoom lenses so you can adjust the image magnification without changing lenses.  Also, the working distance between the front of the lens and the subject will never be less than about 40 mm regardless of the lens design, if you stick with EOS mounts, but these are probably about the least amenable to this treatment because you will lose all electrical communication between the lens and the camera body unless you get a special connector for the purpose.  Because EOS lenses don't have diaphragm rings, you have no easy way to control the f-stop.  However, because you are attaching the lens via its filter threads and not the lens mount, it doesn't much matter what kind of mount the lens has.  You can pick up suitable old lenses for cheap, including Canon FD mount lenses.  An actual diaphragm ring would be very helpful with a lens bought with this purpose in mind, but these are almost universally included on old lenses.

By the way, extension tubes and lens reversal "lose" light in the same way that behind-the-lens teleconverters do.  The light isn't actually "lost" but the same amount of light must be spread over the bigger image when the image is magnified.  The light loss is easy to compute with the teleconverter; not so easy but still possible with the extenders and lens reversals.  For a 1:1 magnification, you can expect to "lose" two stops of light, i.e., the image would be one quarter as bright as a shot taken the normal way.  For higher magnifications, you can expect to "lose" even more light.  I can quote the formulas if you like.

Some other things to keep in mind:

Although extension tubes don't have glass in them, most general-purpose lenses are not optimized for macro work and the path through the lens is not quite the same as it is when the subject is farther away.  You can therefore expect some additional aberrations to show up when using general-purpose lenses for extreme closeup work, including increased geometrical (barrel/pincushion) distortion and curvature of field problems.  However, the image will most likely still be much better than using auxiliary closeup lenses.

A possible exception to this rule can occur if you about another camera lens backwards as your closeup lens in front of your primary lens.  Mounting a second camera lens in front of your primary lens is likely to cut off the corners of your image, but may otherwise give a better image than simply reversing a single lens.  The 'loss' of light problem also doesn't apply for close-up lenses, plain or fancy.  (I won't explain why not here, but only the diaphragm in the main lens affects the exposure.  The one in the close-up lens affects only the field of view.  Closing that one down doesn't affect the amount of light getting to the center of the image but does affect how much the corners of the image are cut off.  You therefore want to operate with the diaphragm of your close-up lens wide open, assuming that the diaphragm is manually adjustable.  Unless this is also a macro lens, the focus on this lens won't matter much but should generally be set at infinity.  (Then again, if you have a real macro lens, why are you messing about with this closeup lens stuff?)

I also have some doubts about the minimum focus distance being maintained when you use a teleconverter.  I'd like to check that one out first.
« Last Edit: July 7, 2012, 11:09 PM by scoundrel1728 » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: July 9, 2012, 3:45 AM »

"I also have some doubts about the minimum focus distance being maintained when you use a teleconverter.  I'd like to check that one out first."

A converter not only retains the minimum focus distance of the lens it is attached to, it also increases the maximum magnification of the lens by the factor of the converter when used with a lens giving a 1.1 ratio … e.g. in the case of the Canon EF 1.4x II Extender by a magnification of 1.4 when used in conjunction with the Canon EF 180mm f/3.5 L Macro, this will give you the added reach of 252mm and macro functionality of 1:4:1 … in the case of non macro lens an increase in magnification between 20% and 40% may be seen and possibly with a lens giving a 1.2 ratio would produce a ratio of 1.1. 

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